[Minutes, Quorum of Twelve] Tuesday 30 Nov[embe]r. 1847. 11 A.M. Meeting in the Council house-Present of the Twelve[:] B[righam]. Young., H[eber] C
Kimball, Willard Richards, Orson Pratt, Wilford Woodruff, E[zra]. G. [T.] Benson., T[homas].
B[ullock]. [O]f the Seventies. J[oseph]. Young., B[enjamin]. L. Clapp, W[illiam]. W. Phelps, & Henry Jacob, R[eynolds]. C[ahoon].
Sung. How sweet the work my God my king. Joseph Young prayed.
J. Young. I would say to the Council & the Brethren here that I have been the principal instrument of calling this Council, [and] report has come to me that Bro: Henry Jacobs has married one or two girls to a man who had a living wife and children in this Camp-that is Brother Phelps.
Bro Jacobs is one of the Presidents in the Seventies, [and] when I heard this report it came so straight that I thought it was correct. Bro Henry acknowledged [it] but I merely on my part wanted to enquire of him by what authority and power he has acted in marrying girls to a married man. This is a thing without precedent in our Quorum. I have not accused him but merely wanted to enquire into it. [I]t astounded me & I felt no sleep until I would have it up. I have invited the 12 in [as] they are our Councillors. I dont accuse Bro Henry-[I]t is a thing that has no precedent in this church. I never heard of such a thing. I want to know the length, & the breadth, & the height of this thing, if we pass it by then it might be considered a beacon to others. and we want to know if it is correct.-Bro Jacobs can have the privilege of speaking-I cant be satisfied until I know all about it [and] if it bears the sanction of the Spirit of God, [but] if not reprove him & if it is right it will bear the /sanction of this/ Council.
W. W. Phelps. If anything [is] wrong it is in me. I dont think Henry has calculated to do anything wrong, [but] he is innocent.
Henry Jacobs[:] Brethren, for [this thing] which I am called in question this morning I have been 15 years in this church [and have] never [been] called up before-When a man has a clear conscience then he has no fear. I fear the Lord & /wish to/ do honor to his cause. When I returned from England to Niagaro Co. New York at Bro Neals, he there had made engagements with 2 sisters-& wanted me to teach them the order of matrimony. I said Brothe[r] Phelps, I have no authority to marry or seal to such a man as you. Brother Phelps said-What I tell you will be right. I have the seal of the 12 & am authorized to teach the Brethren and sisters as the Spirit directs. I took his Council as my superior. I have always been taught to be subject to the powers that be & so I submitted. I said I did not wish to do wrong-[I]f I have done wrong-I am sorry.
B. Y.[:] Did you not teach the doctrine of plurality of wives in fa[ther] Neals[?]-
H. J.[:] No, I did not teach the doctrine. I defy any person to say I ever taught a man may have more wives than one. [B]ut I had to contend with it, its in every mans mouth, every child in the east knows it. I ve been so closed pinched as to tell a lie.
B. Y.[:] I want to know if you taught at Fa[ther] Neals or any other place the doctrine of plurality of wives-
H. J.[:] I have not taught it but in conversation I always said they must come here to learn. I heard Bro: Phelps read his documents. I had it in my hands, he was to council in all things that the Spirit of the Lord should direct to the Brethren abroad. I obeyed his Council-
E. T. B.[:] Henry has been asked & he has not denied it-No, says Brigham, I wont deny it, but I ll tell them it aint there business. Was there anything in his documents that authorized him to Council the Seventys, Elders, & Priests[?]
H. J.[:] It was in his paper to council those abroad.
J. Y.[:] I believe that Bro Henry might think he was doing right, but he was tied up by the law of the land, and he was not loose to do such a thing, & I would have thought he would have a plaguehard thinking about if he was councilled to do such a thing.
B. Y.[:] What Quorum do you belong to, Bro Phelps[?]
W. W.[:] I was ordained a High Priest by Bro Joseph in Nauvoo & he told me I was his special Councillor & I was in the office with Bro. Richards.
O. Pratt to H. J.[: A]re not all the Presidents of Seventies ordained High Priests[?]
J. Y.[: S]ome are-I never was ordained a High Priest-
B. Y.[:] Joseph said be sure to place the high Priesthood upon them, to satisfy the H[igh]
P[riests]. [T]hey were not in the H[igh] P[riests] Quorum-Joseph always said they were apostles & some of the 12 wanted Joseph to ordain B Y. & H C K Elders-Joseph said it would be an insult every apostle [who] has the keys of the kingdom. [I]f the 12 were removed the 70s. would ordain the Apostles., Patriarchs, High Priests, & lead the Church.
E. T. B.[:] I think it is easy to see the 70s held jurisdiction over the high Priests, for they were to leave the churches they built & ordain High Priests & leave them. I have officiated with Joseph Young in ordaining High Priests.
J. Y.[:] Why did Joseph keep the 70s so far back from him. [I]n mentioning them he mentioned them after even the Elders-
B. Y.[:] I will answer that question by asking another. Why did he keep the 12 so far from him & snob them so much[?]-[T]hat is the way T[homas] Marsh apostatized-says Marsh-We are Apostles [and] it s an insult for us to be treated so-[H]e snob[b]ed us & when we proved ourselves the /willing to be/ every bodys servant for Christs sake then we were worthy of power. & if they are great & think themselves great then aint fit for power-
J. Y.[:] When Bro Hyde was in England he ordained one President of 70s. to be a High Priest.
B. Y.[:] If Brother Samuel Richards ordained a High Priest he will belong in the H[igh]
P[riests] Quorum. If Samuel did not want to be ordained [he] should have said here am I. I want to remain as I am & the High Priests will listen to me. Hyrum wanted to ordain J[edediah]. M. Grant into the H[igh] Priests Quorum. I said no, let him remain a 70, & we appealed to Joseph & he said n[o], if he /goes to Phil[adelphia] he/ had all the power he could have wisdom to wield-Joseph said thats right, let him remain a 70.
J. Y.[:] Bro Kimball said in the temple that he could ordain downward.
B. Y.[:] When I get into the valley I shall take some of the gray haired & aged High Priests and set them apart as teachers, but they will retain their High Priesthood, tho they can occupy another station.
O P.[:] A Bishop can preside over the Aaronic Priesthood-[T]hey have [illegible] ordained High Priest before they can be in the Aaronic Priesthood.
J. Y.[:] Geo[rge] Harris said that they should not have 70s on the high Council-We have a case of ordaining downwards. [T]he Bishops have to be ordained High Priests to get the aaronic Priesthood.
B. Y.[:] If the 12 were out of the way, Geo Harris, [we will] call on you to ordain High Councillors.
J. Y.[:] I believe if the 12 [are] annihilated some of the Hi[gh] Council would be for leading the church-
B. Y.[:] If they would they would go to Hell.
O Pratt. The High Council are 12-[I]t takes 70 of the 70s. [I]t looks natural the high Council would lead.
B. Y.[:] Instead of 70 men sitting every day they could make a first Presidency & the 12 can do so now. [T]he keys are left with the Church and the Church can vote a President & he with his two councillors [will] preside over the Church [and] when a first Presidency [is] appointed, it sets the 70 at liberty to go & do their business-[T]he hi[gh] Priests have a right to call 12 men to sit in Council for the time being-but to set in order all the world requires a big wheel.
W Woodruff[:] If we had 40 stakes of Zion organized it would require 40 Hi[gh] Councils.
B. Y.[:] Certainly.
J. Y.[:] If you look at the usages of the church [you will] see the Hi[gh] Council in Jackson Co[unty] & in Kirtland. [They] did not yield to one another but were different men & independent of one another-[It is] not so with the 1st Presidency nor the 12 nor 70s. [T]hey are the same men & stand in the socket all over the world.
B. Y.[:] It s good to talk on these matters, it pleases my Soul-If I was a 70 I d be the last man to leave it to se
ttle every old woman s difficulty-I would say, Ladies & Gents, here is a Hi[gh]
Priest [and] he ll settle your matter. If a travelling officer consents to sit in others offices he goes into the H[igh] P[riests] Quorum.
O P.[:] It s not a changing [of] his office but the nature of his calling.
B Y.[:] I never was ordained a Hi[gh] Priest.
W. W.[:] You was ordained an Apostle, & that swallows up every thing.
J. Y.[:] B. Y. has suggested a new thought to me that the church have the authority and can make a Presidency-If the 70s have power to appoint a first Presidency they have also the right to appoint 12-if they were all dead.
W. W.[:] Would it not fall to the one highest in authority or shall they put any man there[?]-
J. Y.[:] The first man standing in his place is the highest officer, & if he is a good man [he] will have most of the Spirit & they would all pitch upon that man.-
B. L. C.[:] If they have the right to appoint a first Presidency they can pick whom they please.
O. P.[:] The 1st President has not the right of choosing his 2 Councillors. [In] D&C 102, p. 11, Sec. [T]he three are chosen by the body-
B. Y.[:] Would like to see that-(reads it). [T]hat does not touch the point at all-[T]hat does not deprive the Pres[iden]t. chosen to select his 2 Councillors, only he must be backed up by the church. [T]he President has the right to make his selection or nomination, & if the church won t back him up he may continue nominating till he has every male member in the church, & if they won t back up his nomination he may preside alone-and the Church has no right to nominate him-
J. Y.[:] It never will be nor never was that the first man in the Church will choose a man that the Church wont sanction.
B. Y.[:] It is too late in the season for this church to teetotally go into Babylon, [so let us] rejoice in that.
O. P.[: S]uppose the Church appoints 3 Presidents. Bro Young [is] nominated, seconded, & received as the first Pres[iden]t., & he suggests individuals of the 70s. to be his councillors. [I]f the church has the power would it be right for to do this, if the church has power to appoint others would it not be out of joint for them to appoint for his Councillors those who do not stand next to him, or is the church required to put in the 2 next by age[?]-
H C K[:] I consider when the Pres[iden]t. is elected he suggests to the body his 2
Council[lors] & for them to uphold [him].
E. T. B.[:] I consider the Pres[iden]t. can select just whom he pleases, even a lay man.
B. Y.[:] Go a little farther back to the time of De Witt-Oliver Cowdery came within a hair breadth of as much influence as Joseph but he went [and] took a man & baptized him & then said I want you to be my first Councillor, that is (Fredrick Gee).
H C K[: S]uppose all the members of my body put hands on my big toe & call[ed] it the head, would it be the head[?] There is nothing in Gods world [that] will answer like what the Lord does. I give unto you B. Y. to be Pres[iden]t. of the 12. & you can t put any other in.
B. Y.[:] It is only one man that can remove B. Y. [and] only one man can remove Heber.
W. W. P.[:] I want it understood that Bro Henry is innocent. Bro Henry married 2 girls to me-not sealed-I dont owe any defference to the laws of N.Y. I had no wife in the U.S, I would not bring a woman unless she was married-& these 2 girls wanted to come. [H]e would no marry us & I took the responsibility. I never said I had the sealing power-I put my feet ag[ains]t. the Spiritual wife doctrine-I would not have a woman unless she was my wife-You believed it was lawful then Judge-Yes.
B. Y.[:] I am sorry, plagy [plenty?] sorry that it is so but you are are living in adultery with them, [for] it is impossible for any man to have the 2d woman unless given him by the woman who has the keys of the sealing powers. [T]hen he has the privilege of taking a woman if there is nothing in the way. You /Are/ you operating in the Gentile world to get more wives[?] No. [I]t is by the celestial law you get wives. Well go & get them according to the order of that law-A Father has some Jewels in his palace-[H]e says to his children you must not touch them. [But] whe[n] he is proved faithful [the] father says, my son here s a Jewel, take her to your bosom, & when he can govern that one give him another-I might just go and sleep with these girls & it [would] be as right as you doing so-I would rather have my right arm cut off. Joseph never allowed the 12 nor any man-We brought girls home after [a] 2 years mission to England and paid their passage but did not touch them nor put our arms round them. [T]hey married others. [H]ere s Wooleys wife. Sister Cobb was given me by Revelation from Joseph but I never did anything till long after she was given until I got the ceremonies performed and all made right-
H C K[:] A man has no right to go and ask [for] a wife until he gets liberty, and if a man has been applied to by a woman [he] durst not take her without leave-
B. Y.[:] No. [B]y the strict letter of the Law-[T]his p[eo]pl[e] will be cut off for whoredom, a good many of them, if they don t look out.
O. P[:] When I was out I was asked to make a covenant at some future time-I told them I had no right-[A]s the 12 has not the right to enter into covenant, [I] dont see how others have the right.
B. Y.[:] Now be careful Bro Phelps, and go down into the waters of Baptism & have hands laid on you, & dont sleep with one of those girls till you have them from me & be ordained, & I just know the Devil will get the advantage of you-It makes me feel [upset] when I see men in slipping places no man is fit to hold a license who will do such things. [I]t is like handling edge tools, [for] a man is in danger of bleeding & I tremble & fear-[I]f [the] Seventies do that, take their license-I would kick a high Priest out of the way-[N]o man [is] fit to hold a license who will do any such thing-I dont fear the Gentiles now, [for] it is nothing to what I fear the Elders-[W]e will never be ruined except we ruin ourselves.
J. Y.[:] Is it your opinion that Bro Jacobs is under transgression[?]
B. Y.[:] No not knowingly, but don t let him go out till he knows better. I am glad to see the Judge increasing but am sorry it was not lawfully. Brethren I feel mercyful-
J. Y.[:] I know there is not an Elder in this Church that had the light of the Spirit in his heart but would have prevaricated and said I wont do it-If I had been in Niagara Co[unty] I believe I should have vetoed it. I would not have been led by a man altho a superior officer-[A]s careful as I am /I d rather risk to go home & get a whipping./ I never durst put my finger on the rim of their bonnet. [T]he Serpent is there. & I feel that no Elder ought to do it. [I]t is lust [and] will cause many of the Elders to go to the Devil.
B. Y.[:] Is it sin to lust after a woman[?]-
J. Y.[:] You see a young woman that has the Spirit of the Lord and her voice is music in your ear. [H]er graces are fascinating, her accomplishments are beautiful, it is an Angelic Spirit, & [you] say in your heart that if I could come round her I would go it. [I]t thus runs into a spirit of lust & if you consent to that spirit it is adultery.-
B. Y.[:] I ll tell you how you can come to it. [T]he sin against the holy Ghost is the consenting to shed innocent blood-[T]hey conceive it in their hearts & say, if I could have done it I would and am glad of it-If a man says, I would kill the Prophet if I had power, that is consenting to shed innocent blood-But it is not because you love the woman nor the desire to stop her, but if you wouldn t do it if you had the power-[T]he affections a woman has for man is right-[T]he Lord puts it there, and the Devil would open the flood gates of hell to destroy them-It is perfectly right that you enjoy a woman all you can to overflowing & tell her to keep all about her clean & neat-A woman is the dirtirst creature, dirtier than a man.
B. Y.[:] Consenting in his heart to do it if he had the chance. I won t say how often I have been guilty of adultery, but I will say I never did the act.
J. Y.[:] I heard Bro Joseph say that a man who had /never/ been in the Church but h
ad often committed acts of fornication would never-if he should leave it off afterwards-attain to that fulness of the Priesthood that a man who has always kept himself pure will-
Kimball[:] This is a good meeting.
O. P.[:] Supposing the church should appoint 3 [for the] first Presidency. [T]hey have a right to do anything else-[W]ould that first Pres[idenc]y have the same power and control over the 12 that Joseph & his 2 Councillors had[?]-[W]ould they be under the same direction as the 12 were under Joseph, or would their decision be equal in authority as the whole 12[? S]upposing that the 3 had no farther ordination to that office-all holding equal authority [-] would the decision of the 3 of the 12 be equal to 7 or a quorum, with /whether/ an appointment without any additional authority would entitle the 3 to any more authority than the others of the 12[?]-
Jos Young-I will answer that. [Y]es. [O]r what are they appointed for[? T]hey have the sanction of the church & all the authorities.
O. P.[:] Would not any other 3 be equal to them[?]
H C K[: S]upposing the 9 would appoint the 3 or the Quorum of the 12 invest the power in 3.
O. P.[:] Have the other 9 the right to do that to give such power to the 3[?]-Have we a right to make the decision of 3 of the 12 higher than a quorum of the 12 or 7 when the Book of Covenants says we have the 12[?]-If they have that power there is something in the dark yet-[I]f 3 men need an ordination to be appointed Presidents who will ordain them[?]-
B. Y.[:] It don t convey that idea.
O. P.[:] The Book of Cov[enan]ts. say that 7 is required in all things.
B. Y.[:] The Law could not obtain for them what the election obtainted-If men are elected by the Church-[I]t is by election Joseph was ordained an Apostle, but the church elected him as a President, Prophet, Seer, & Revelator, but he never was ordained to that office, why the one that ordained him would have to take his own hat off & put it on him & then go to hell. Oliver Cowdery ordained Joseph an Apostle. Oliver [was] ordained an Apostle by Joseph [and] they received their ordinations by Peter James & John before there was a church. [T]ake them that are ordained & elect them and they [are] selected & upheld by the church & therefore elected.
O. P. reads page 102 par. 11.
B. Y.[:] If one apostle [is] living he has the control.
H C K.[:] If Peter Ja[me]s & John had the right to come, were they not a Pres[iden]cy[?]
B. Y.[:] Joseph said so many a time.
B. Y.[:] Joseph was ordained an apostle [and] so was I-Aint I Pres[iden]t over the 12[?]-
[Y]es-[A]int the 12 the Pres[i]d[enc]y of the Church[?] Yes, they are appointed & upheld. [I]t presupposes their ordination.
B. Y. reads. [I]t explains itself. Joseph ordained an apostle [illegible] He is gone by the board-Joseph is gone to the grave leaving the 12. P. [O.] C. was the Jr apostle-No man has a right to regulate the Church unless he was an apostle-Joseph has stept out of the way-[W]e take one step in advance. & if there is an Apostle in the church all the keys are teetotally rested in him-Peter was the Pres[iden]t. & he chose James & John & they gave the power to Joseph & they were only Apostles-[I]f the church should say take 3 men from the Quorum of the 12 /and appoint & sanction them/ their decisions are as legal as 12. [O]f necessity we must have /a Quorum to stay at home,/ 3 men to preside in the Stake of necessity we must have a more /Quorum/ to preach the Gospel to the nations of the earth [and] ordain Patriarchs [and] Bishops-[O]f necessity we must have 70s. to assist, it is of necessity we have have helps [from] governments in the Church because one Quorum cannot tend every where. [E]lection, prayers, & faith give 3 the right. 14 days [is] long enough to give it [to] me by election & you 3 men be the same as a Quorum of the 12. [I]f any thinks they have as much power as I have, wrestle with me & see where you will go-& if I can t throw them. If 11 men decide in unrighteousness & I know it & if I do right I ll throw the whole of them & God will support me & leave them in the mire.
O. P.[: S]uppose 7 men of the 12 say to a man go abroad, & 3 at home say come home.
[W]hich [do they] submit to[?]
30 Nov[embe]r. 1847
At a meeting of the Council in the C[ouncil] H[ouse]. Present[:] B[righam]. Y[oung]., H[eber]. C. K[imball]., Dr. [Willard] R[ichards]., W[ilford]. Woodruff, J[oseph]. Young., B[enjamin]. L. C[lapp]., W[illiam] W Phelps, E[zra]. T. B[enson]., O[rson] P[ratt].
J. Y. opened the meeting by pray[er] & singing.
J. Y.[: I] say to the C[ouncil] & the Bre[thren] here that I have been the prin[ciple] instrument of calling this C[ouncil. A] report has come to me that Bro Henry Jacobs has married one or two girls to a man who had a living wife & children in this Camp-that is bro [William W.] Phelps. H W H. J. is one of our Pres[iden]ts in the Seventies. [W]hen I heard this report it came so straight that I thought it was straight. Bro H acknowledged-but I merely on my part wanted to enquire of him by what au[thority] & power he is acted in marrying girls to a man who has another wife. This is a thing without precedent in our Quorum. I have not accused him, but merely wanted to enquire into it-[I]t astounded me & I felt no sleep until I would have it up. I have invited the 12 in [as] they are our councillors, [and] I don t accuse Bro Henry-[I]t is a thing that has no pre[cedence] in this church-I never heard of such a thing-I want to hear the B[readth] & the L[ength] & the H[eight]-[I]f we pass it by then it might be considered a license to others if it was past by-& we want to know if it [is] correct-[We] want to give H Jacobs the privilege of speaking [as] one of the Pres[iden]ts of the 12th quorum. [I]f [it] is a thing that bears criticism then we want to hear it-& if it is right then [it] will bear the sanction of this Council.
Judge Phelps-If [there is] anything wrong to it [then the blame is] on me. I dont think Henry is cal[l]ed.
H. J.[:] Bre[thren] for which I am cal[l]ed to question this mo[rni]ng. I have been 15 years in this Church [and have] never [been] cal[l]ed up before. [A] man has a clear conscience then he has no fear. [W]hen I returned from Engl[an]d to Niagara Co. N. Y. at Bro Neils-& there was engagements he had made to two sisters. [H]e wanted me to keep them & tell them of the matrimonial eng[a]g[m]ents so he could keep them-I would not have to marry you-Phe[lps] says what I tell you will be right. I have the seal of the 12-& am authorized to teach the Bre[thren] & Spirits as the Spirits directs. [I] always felt to submit to authority. I told him that I did not wish to do wrong-& if I have done wrong [please tell me].
B. Y.[:] Did you /not/ teach the doc[trine] of plurality of wives in fa[ther] Neil s[?]-No, says Jacob, I never [did. Y]ou cant bring a man to tell that I taught it-but I had to cntd /(contend)/ with dep.-I never told a lie, says Brigham, about it, I did/nt
/B. Y.[: D]id you not teach at fa[ther] Neils something like it. [F]a[ther] Neil asked if there was an order in the kingdom of God & when we git to the place.
E. T. B.[:] Henry has been asked & he has not done it. No, says Brigham, I wont deny it, but told them it aint none of their business-Was there anything in Phelps doc[ument]. that au[thorized]. him to council the S E & Priests[?]-H. J. says-[I]t was in the paper that he was to council those abroad-
J. Y.[:] I believe that Bro. Henry thought might think he was doing right. [B]ut he was tied up by the law of the land & he will have a plague hard think[in]g. about [it] even if he was councilled by [a] higher authority-
B. Y.[:] You belong to the H[igh] Priests quorum Bro Phelps. I was ordained by Bro Joseph in Nauvoo.
O. P. to H. J.[:] Are not all the Pres[iden]ts of 70 ordained H[igh] Priests[?]-
J. Y.[: N]ot all of them. I never was ordained a High Priest. I know that Bro. Joseph charged you Joseph to ordain the 70s to the High Priesthood.
W. W.[: A]ll the 1st 2 Quorums of 70 were ordained High Priests-every apostle have got the keys of the Kingdom of are the 12 men of that the 70s sent to ordain Patriarchs, prophets, & lead the Church[?]-[T]he Seventie
s are the 70 Apostles not the 12 apostles-
O Pratt[: W]e were counselling B. Y. to ordain the-You told me, B., to ordain the 70s to the apostleship & the High Priesthood.
T. B. B.[:] I think that its easy to see that no 70s held the promotion over the Hi[gh] [Priests], for they were to leave the Ch[urch] & ordain H[igh] P[riests] & leave them.
J. Y.[: W]hy then Did Joseph keep the 70[? To] snob over their shouds /(shoulders)[?]
/Brigham-I will answer that question by asking another. Why did he snob the 12, so [was] that the reason why T[homas] Marsh apostatized[?]-Why, says he, [for] we apostles its an insult for us to be treated so-[S]nob them a little & if they be true servants of all then they are to get the power-& if they would become great & think themselves great then they aint fit for power-
J. Y.[:] When Br Hyde was in England [he was told] that he [should] ordain one Pres[iden]t of 70s to be a high priest-& then [he] took him out of the 70s [and] put him in the H[igh] Priests.
B. Y.[: T]he Bre[thren] will never get humble enough.
B. Y.[:] I havent ordained a H[igh] Priest. No, he must go with the Hi[gh] Priests Quorum.
Well Hyde says, I am here, you council me to be a H[igh] Priest-I want to be a 70. & if I have the honer of God-I can council them. They wanted to ordain me a H[igh] Priest.
B. Y.[:] I did not want it so [that] I had got all the power. I wanted Hyrum wanted to ordain J[edediah]. G /Grant/ a H P. I said No, let him remain [a] 70, & we appealed to Joseph & he said he has all the power he can have wisdom to need. Joseph said thats right, [and] B. Y. calculated to ordain tea out of H[igh] Priests & they can act as H[igh]. C[ounselors]. & W R[: I]ts wants the smartest & aged & kind men to act as teachers in the stakes-but it takes away their H[igh] P[riesthood]. No-their priesthood cant be taken from them, but it dont prove he cant accept another station. We have a case of ordaining downwards, [and] the Bishops have got to be ordained a H[igh] P[riest] to get the aaronic P[riesthoo]d.
Geo[rge] Harris said that they should not have 70 on H[igh] Councils.
B. Y.[: A]s Brigh[a]m, if the Twelve [are] out of the way-Harris, [I] call on you to ordain High Counselors. If all the 12 [are] out of th[e] way you would say that the H[igh] C[ouncil] soon would be for leading the Church.
B. Y.[:] If they would, they would go to Hell. O. P.[: T]he H[igh]. C[ounselors]. are 12. [I]t takes 70 to make 12. [W]ell the H[igh] C[ouncil] are just at a stake of 70s. If the Sev 12 [have] gone they could make a first Pres[i]d[enc]y[? Y]es, the 12 could do so now-[T]he keys are left with the church & they [2 handwritten question marks] Church cont vote a president & he with his two counselors preside over the church-[A]ll the author call on a [?] voted & seconded that that such be a H[igh]. C[ouncillor]. & the proper [?] /people [?]/ them then the other part of the Seventies could be liberated. the 1st Presidency & the Seventies.
W. W.[:] Have 40 stakes of Zion have 40 H[igh] Councils.
J. Y.[:] If you look at the usages of the church you see that in Jackson Co[unty]. & then Kirtland H[igh]. C[ouncillors]. did not yield to one another-[T]hey do not stand in their socket as the P[riest], Pat[riarch]., 12, or 70s. [T]hey are always there.
B. Y.[:] It is good to talk over these matters.-
B. Y.[:] If I were one of the 70s I d be the last man to leave it. I would say L[adies] & Gen[tlemen], Here is a H[igh] Priest [-] he ll set[t]le your matter.
O P[:] Its not a change [of] his office, but the nature of his calling.
B. Y.[:] I never was ordained a H[igh] Priest.
J. Y.[:] B. Y. has suggested a new thought to me-[and] thinks the Church have the au[thority]. [that it] can made a Pres[i]d[en]cy.
W. W.[: Why] not take a person of [?] 12.
J. Y.[:] The first man standing in his place in the highest office. [I]f he is a good man [he will] have the Spirit [and] they would light upon their man.
O. P.[:] The first Pres[iden]t has not the right of choosing his first Counselor-B. Y. would like to see that. [T]hat does not deprive the Pres[iden]t chosen to select his two counselors, only he must be backed [by] the E[lders of] the Church. [T]he Pres[iden]t has the right to make his selection or nomination & if the Church wont back him, sh[all] nominate all the /every/ male member in the Church-& if they wont back up his nomination he may preside alone & the church has no right to nominate for him.
J. Y.[:] It never will be nor never was that the first man in the Church will choose a man that the Ch[urch] wont sanction.
B. Y.[:] It is too late in the season for this church to teetotaly to go into Baby[lon &] I rejoice in this.
O. P.[: S]up[p]ose that the Ch[urch] would appoint 3 Pres[iden]ts. Bro Y [is] nomi[na]t[e]d, seconded, & rec[eive]d as the first Pres[iden]t. & he suggest individuals of the 70 to be his counselors. [I]f the Church has the power, would it be right for to do this if the Church has power to appoint others, or would it not be out of joint for them to appoint for his Counsellors those who do not stand next to them[?]
Oliver Cowdery [did] come within a hair breadths of as much influence as Joseph but he went & took a man & baptized him to put as his first councilor.-
B Y[: He t]akes off his cap &c & says, here I ll go to hell & you have all I got.
H C K[: S]uppose all the members of my body put hands on my big toe & call it the head[:] will it be the head[?]
H C K[:] There is nothing in Gods world [that] will answer as well what the Lord [would] do-I give you, B. Y., to be a pres[iden]t to the Twelv[e]-
B. Y.[: T]here is only one man [who] can remove B. Y. [and] only one man [can] remove H
C K. J. Y.[:] I ask the C[ouncil], will you resolve liberate Bro Jacobs[?]
W W Phelps[:] I would like you [to] ask a few words. [S]ays B. Y., did y[ou], Bro Jacobs, ma[y] /(marry)/ 2 girls to you, [and if so], by what au[thority?]-
W W[:] By the authority of the Pr[iesthoo]d. I would not take a woman to the Camp if she was not m[arrie]d to me., & I called upon one to do it & I would bear all the responsibility. [T]hese 2 girls I was wanted to come-& I would not go along with 2 /women/ [unless I was their] husband-
You believe it is lawful-[T]he Judge, Yes-
B. Y.[:] I am sorry, plagued sorry that it is so. But you are living in adultery with them, [for] it is impossible for any man to give the 2 women unless given him by the man that has the keys of the sealing power-[T]hen when he has the privil[ege]. of telling a woman there is nothing in the way-[A]re you operating in the Gentile world to get more wives[? N]o-it is by the celestial law you get wives. [N]ow go & get them according to the order of that law, [for] a son has some Jewels of his fa[ther]-[He said] my son, [do] not touch them-[Y]es take one to your bosom-[and if he] sees him f[aith]f[u]l, then [he will] give him another-I might just as well take your wives & go & sleep with them as near just as right-I would rather have his right arm cut off-Joseph never allowed the 12 to [?] a man-[W]e brought girls after 2 years [of a] mission to England & paid their passage. [D]id we flirt with them to our arms round them[?]-No. [H]ere [is] Woolys wife-Sister Colb was given to me be Revelation from Joseph & long after-but I never did anything till long after she was gone, but we I got the ceremony proper & all right.
H C K[:] A man has no right to go and ask [for] a wife until he gets liberty, & if a man his [is] applied to by a woman [he] durst not take her without leave. to B. Y.[:] No, by the strict letter of the Law-this p[eo]pl[e] will be cut off for whoredom, a good many of them, if they don t look out.
O Pratt[: W]hen I was out I was asked to make a Cov[enan]t at some future time, [but] I told them I had no right.
B Y[:] Now be careful Bro Phelps, go into the waters of Baptism & dont have any connection with those women till you have them from me & be ordained-& I just know that the Devil will get the advantage of you as [?] by nature. ar[e] B R on your au W W Phelps-[I]f Bro Henry I say if a Seventy do this take their license. I would kick a H[igh] P[riest] out of the way, [for] no man [is] fit to hold a L
icense who will do any such thing acting upon the Pr[iesthoo]d. [J]ust as Joseph said, [?] [it is like] touching edged tools, & if a man dont know exactly [how to do it] he will bleed-I dont fear the Gentiles now, [for] it is nothing to that I fear the Elders. [W]e will be never be ruined except we ruin ourselves-
B. Y[: It is] not quit[e] busi[ness] if out of [the] office.
H C K[:] W W P & [?] the mob mak [?] a man, but those da[y]s have gone.
Bro Jacobs J. Y.[:] Is it your opinion that Bro Henry is [?] [in] transgression[?]-
B. Y.[:] No, not knowingly. But dont let him go out until he knows better-
B. Y.[:] I am glad to see the Judge increasing but am sorry it was not lawfully. Bre[thre]n, I feel mercyful.
J. Y.[:] I know there is not an Elder in this Church that had the light of the Spirit in his heart in his heart but would have prevaricated & said I wont do it. I ll risk to go home & get a whipping & it is lust that will cause them to [?]
B. Y.[:] Is it sin to lust fo a woman-
Jose[p]h Y.[:] You see a woman that has the Spirit of the Lord, [and] her /words are/ music in your ear, her graces are beautiful. You would like it-& say in your heart, that if I could come round.
I would go it.
B. Y.[:] I ll tell you how you can come to it. [T]he sinning ag[ain]st. the H[oly]. G[host]. is the consenting to shedding innocent blood. [W]ell they conceive it in their heart & say[:] if I could have done it I would & am glad of it. But it is not because you leave the woman nor love to stop her, for if you cannot see them but if you wouldnt do it if you had the power-A woman is the dirtiriest creature, dirtier than a man. It is perfectly right that you enjoy a woman all you can to overflowing & tell her to keep all about her clean & neat.
B. Y.[: If one is] consenting in his heart to do it if he had the chance, I wont say how often I have kept the been guilty of adultery-but I will say I never did the act.
J. Y.[:] I heard Bro Joseph say that a man who had been /never been/ in the Church & had committed fornicatous acts /after/-would if he should leave it o[f]f-[Would] never attain to that fulness of the P[riesthoo]d. that a man that has always kept him pure will.
H C K[:] This is a good meeting.
O. P.[:] Suppos[e] that the Ch[urch] should app[oin]t. 3 first Pres[idenc]y, which they have a right to do, would that first Pres[idenc]y have the same power & control over the 12 that Joseph & his 2 cou[nselors] had[? W]ould they be under the same direction as the 12 were under Joseph-or would their decision be equal in anything as the whole 12[? S]upposing that the 12 said now, no farther ordination to that office-[for] all holding equal authority [-] would the decision of 3 of the 12-be equal to 7 of the 12 or a quorum whether an appointment without any additional authority would entitle this 3 to any more than the 12[?]-
J. Young[:] I will answer that-Yes. [T]he three [are] app[oin]t[ed]. by the pe[o]p[l]e. [O]r would not the 3 be equal [to] any [of] them[?]
H C K[: S]upposing the other 9 would app[oi]nt the 3 to-
O Pratt[:] Have the other nine the right to do that to give such power to the 3[?]-Have we a right to make the dicision of 3 of the 12 higher that a quorum of the 12 or 7 when the B[ook] of Com[mandments] say[s] we have the 7[?]
B. Y.[:] The Law could not obtain for them what the election obtained. Joseph was ordained an apostle, [and] that was all he was elected to in the world-He never was ordained a first pres[iden]t nor a prophet, seer, & revelator. Why, who ordained a first Pres[id]ent[? W]hy, the one that take[s] his hat off & ordain[s] him & go to hell. Oliver Cowdry ordained Joseph an apostle [and]
Oliver [was] ordained an apostle by Joseph-[T]ake them that are ordained & the Church elect[s] them & that gives them other power than was already ordained.
Joseph was ordained an apostle & like me I am pres[iden]t over the 12 & all the Ch[urch].
B. Y.[:] If one /apostle/ only [is] living he has the whole controul.
H C K[:] If Peter James & John had the right to come, were they not a Pres[i]d[enc]y[?]
B. Y.[:] Joseph has said many a time that those three were a Presidency-& if the church appoint[s] & sanction[s] 3 their decisions will be equal to all the Twelves. [O]f necessity we want a quorum to stay at home-a quorum [to] go of necessity & ordain Patriarchs, Bishops, & go. Of necessity we must have 70, [and] it is of necessity we have these helps & government in the Ch[urch] because one Quorum-[?] has the right of the 12. there election & the prayers & faith of the p[eo]pl[e] give them the right-14 days longer enough to give it [to] me by election & You 3 men will be the same as a quorum of the 12-
If the 12 have as much power as I have, [let them] wrestle with me & we will see If I dont throw them-If a man decide[s] an unrighteous thing & I know it-& if I do right I ll throw the whole of them & God will support me & leave them in the mire-My decision, would not be the law until the p[eo]pl[e] said that Law of my in was right.
O P.[:] Could nine of the 12-if one of the twelve tell be told by 8 of the 12 abroad to stay out & the 3 of the 12 in Zion tell him to come home-
H C K move[d] an adjournment & O Pratt seconded. 20 min[utes] to 3.
Tuesday Nov[embe]r. 30. 1847 11 A.M. Meeting in the Council House.
Pres[iden]ts. [Brigham] Young, [Heber C.] Kimball, [Willard] Richards, [Wilford]
Woodruff, [Ezra T.] Benson, [Orson] Pratt. Joseph Young, B[enjamin]. L. Clapp, W[illiam]. W. Phelps, Henry Jacobs. T[homas] Bullock. "How sweet the work my God my King" was sung. [P]rayer by Joseph Young.
Joseph Young-[A] report has come to me that bro. H[enry]. Jacobs has married one or 2 girls to a man who had a living wife in this camp-viz bro Phelps-[B]ro Jacobs is one of 70 & a Pres[iden]t. I have investigated it a little-Henry ack[nowledge]s: that is the case-I wanted to enquire into this matter & by what power & auth[ori]ty. he marries girls to a marr[ie].d. man. [T]his is an unprecedented thing-it astounded my feelings when I heard it., & I want it investigated-I have invited the Twelve & want them to know the merits of the case-[T]his thing has no precedent in the Ch[urch]-& I want to [k]no[w] the length, breadth, & heighth of this thing-& so to save others from doing so, this thing I want to know about-[H]e ack[nowledged]: he marr[ie]d. 2 young women to bro: Phelps. [B]ro Jacobs is one of the Pres[iden]ts. in 15 Quo[rum]. I cant be satisfied until I [k]no[w] all ab[ou]t. it-if it bears the sanction of the Sp[i]r[it] of God-if not, [he must be] reproved.
Phelps[: I]f there is any thing wrong, it is in me-I know Henry is innocent.
Jacobs[: T]his thing is unexpected to me-I have been in [the] Ch[urch] 15 y[ea]rs & never was called bef[ore]: a Council bef[ore].-I fear the Lord & want to do honor to his cause-[Whe]n I ret[urne]d. to Niagara Co[unty]. N.Y. Bro. G. Neales was a few days bef[ore] bro Phelps arrived-
[H]e wanted I sho[ul]d. introduce the order of matrimony-I said bro P., I have no auth[orit]y. to marry or seal to such a man as you-I took his Council as my Sup[erio]r. all the wa[y] thro[ugh] -I have always been taut to be subject to the powers that be & so I submitted. I said I did not wish to do wrong. [I]f Ive done wrong I am sorry-X [Crossed] enqs /by B. Y./ I did not teach the doctrine-I defy any p[e]rson to sa[y] I ever taut [that] a man ma[y] have more wives than one-[A] man has no /acc. my to/ teach it-[I]ts in every man s mouth-every child in the East knows it-& I ve been so close pinched as to tell a lie-
B. Y.[:] I want to [k]no[w] if you taut at Fa[the]r. Neals or any /o[the]r./ place the doct[rine]. of plurality of Wives-
Jacobs[:] I have not taut it-but in conversat[io]n. I always said they must come here to learn.
I heard bro Phelps read his doct[rine]:-I had it in my hands-[H]e was to council in all things that the Sp[i]r[it]. of the L[or]d. sho[ul]d. direct. I obeyed his council-
Phelps[: I]t is on me-I know he has nothing to do with it-
Joseph-[H]e has not the power of sealing, he admits-[H]e is tied up-I wo[ul]d. not dare to tie a woman ever in this place-much more far away from here.-
B. Y. asked W W P.[:] I belong to the H
i]gh] Priests-bro: Jos[ep]h. ord[aine]d. me in Nauvoo-& he told me I was his Special Council[lor] & I was in the office with bro. Richards.
O. P. ask[s] H Jacobs-[A]re not all the Pres[iden]ts. of 70 ord[aine]d. H[igh]. P[riests?]
Joseph Young[: S]ome are-I never was ord[aine]d. a Hi[gh] Priest-
B. Y.[:] Joseph said be sure to place the Hi[gh]. P[riesthood]. upon them. to satisfy the Hi[gh]
Priests-[T]hey were not in the H[igh]. P[riests]. Quo[rum]. Joseph always said they were apostles-& some of the 12 wanted Jos[ep]h. to ordain B Y & H C. K. Elders-Joseph said it wo[ul]d. be an insult-every apostle has the Keys of the P[riesthood]. [I]f the 12 were removed the 70 wo[ul]d. ordain the apostles Hi[gh] Priests & every thing-
E. T. B.[:] I have officiated with Joseph Young to ordain Hi[gh]. Priests-
O. P.[:] We were instructed to ordain P[residents] of 70s & place on them the apostleship & Hi[gh] Priests of the 70s.
B. Y.[:] I think you are mistaken-[T]he H[igh] P[riests] wanted us to take a Quo[rum] of 70 out of their Quorum-
E. T. B.[:] The very D&C shows the 70 have jurisdiction over the H[igh]. P[riests]. & can set in order & ordain a H[igh]. P[riest].
B. Y.[: T]he very reason of Joseph putting the 12 so far from him was the cause of many apostatizing-[W]hen they were willing to be every body s serv[an]t. for Christ s sake [he] was just giving them all the power-[I]f he snub[bed] them a bit it wo[ul]d. be well for them-
J. Y.[:] It require[s] some philosophy to look into that.
B. Y.[:] It is for me to do the things that I am told to & what I [k]no[w] to be right-
J. Y.[:] When bro Hyde was in England he ord[aine]d. a /P[resident]. of/ 70 to be a H[igh].
P[riest].
B. Y.[:] They will never understand. [I]f bro Sam[ue]l. Richards was ord[aine]d. to be a H[igh]. P[riest]. he belongs to the H[igh]. P[riests]. Quo[rum]. [B]ro Sam[ue]l sho[ul]d. have said here am I. I want to remain as I am & the H[igh] P[riests]. will listen to me. The H[igh] P[riests]. ought to be better men! I saw Hyrum want to ordain J[edediah]. M. Grant into the H[igh] P[riests]. I said as loud[:] let them remain where they are. [I]f Jed: goes to Phil[adelphia]: he will have all the influence that he can manage in wisdom-[B]ro Jos[ep]h said let them remain as they are-
J. Y.[: B]ro Kimball said in the Temple that he co[ul]d. ordain downwards-
B. Y.[:] When I get into the Valley I shall take some of the grey & aged H[igh] P[riests]. & set them apart as teachers, but as they shal will retain their H[igh]. P[riesthood].
O. P.[:] A Bishop can preside over the Aaronic P[riesthood].-they have to be ordained a H[igh]. P[riest]. bef[ore] they can be in the Aaronic P[riesthood].
J. Y.[:] I bel[ieve] if the 12 were annihilated-the Hi[gh] Council wo[ul]d. be in fear & want to lead this p[eo]pl[e]
B. Y.[:] They wo[ul]d. lead them to the Devil-
O. P.[:] It looks to me naturally that the Hi[gh] Council would lead-
B. Y.[:] Instead of 70 men sitting every day they wo[ul]d. make a 1st. Pres[idenc]y.-appoint a man & then with 2 co[un]s[elors].-the 70 have power to come tog[ethe]r. in council-[W]hen a 1st. Co[unse]l[or]. is app[oin]t[e]d., it sets the 70 at liberty to go & do their bus[iness]-[T]he Hi[gh] P[riests]. have a right to call 12 men to sit in Co[unci]l. for the time being-but to set in order all the world requires a big wheel.
W W[:] If there were 40 Stakes it wo[ul]d. require 40 Hi[gh] Co[unse]l[or]s.
B. Y.[:] Certainly-
J. Y.[:] The 1st Presidency-the 12-& the Pres[iden]ts. of 70 stand in the socket all over the world-
B. Y.[:] It is good to talk over these things, [for] it just pleases my soul-If I was one of the 70s, I wo[ul]d. be the last man to leave it to settle every old woman s difficulty. If a travelling officer consents to sit in /other/ offices he goes into the H[igh] P[riests]. Quo[rum]. I never was ord[aine]d. a H[igh] P[riest] in my life-
W W P.[: H]e was ord[aine]d. an Apostle & that swallows up every thing-
J. Y.[:] If the 70 have power to appoint a First Pres[idenc]y. they have also the ri[gh]t. to appoint all [the] 12-if they were all dead-
W. W.[:] Wo[ul]d. it not fall to the one highest in authority-or shall they put any man there[?]-
J. Y.[:] The first man has the greatest of the Sp[irit] of the L[or]d. & every one of course wo[ul]d. pitch on him-
B L. Clap[: I]f they have the r[igh]t. to app[oin]t. a 1st Pres[idenc]y. they can pick whom they please-
O. P.[:] The First pres[idenc]y. has not the power of choosing his two councillors-[B]y the D.&C.-(page 102-11 Sec[tion]) the three are chosen by the body.
B. Y.[:] That does not touch the point at all-[T]he Pres[iden]t. chooses his 2 Co[unselor]s. & they are upheld by the p[eo]pl[e]-
O. P.[:] The Bishops choose their Councillors &c &c.-the Pres[iden]t. might suggest so & so for Co[unselor]s.
B. Y.[: I]f the Ch[urch] upholds him he belongs to him.
B Y[: A]s[o] his Co[unselors]. & the Church has no right to nominate-
W R.[:] Joseph s[ai]d. he was going to select a Pres[iden]t. & Hi[gh]. Co[unse]l[or]. David Carn rebelled-Joseph agreed to appoint bro Whitmer-& him choose his councillors-[T]his meeting was at Burke s.
O. P.[:] Bro Young s Ideas are correct-
J. Y.[:] That is supposing a thing that never was & never will be-
B. Y.[:] It is too late in the day for this Ch[urch] to go into Babylon, that rejoices me-
J. Y.[:] The focus of the power was on the man who held the power of the P[riesthood].
O. P.[:] Would the Church be required to take the 2 next men by age or whom they please[?]-[S]uppose for instance bro. B[righam]. is appointed [a] 1st Pres[iden]t-& if the Ch[urch] had the power to put in 2 of the P[residents] of the 70 wo[ul]d. it be right? [S]till it wo[ul]d. be out of joint to do so-
H C K[:] I consider when the Pres[iden]t. is elected, he suggests to the body his 2
Coun[selors]. for them to uphold-
E. T. B.[:] I consider the Pres[iden]t. can select just whom he pleases-even a lay man.
B. Y.[:] Go back a little further to the time of the 3 Wit[nesses]: when O[liver]. Cowdery had nearly as much power as Joseph-[H]e went & bap[tize]d a man & then said I want you to be my 1st Co[unselo]r.-that was (Fredrick Gee)-
E. T. B.[:] If the 12 were gone Joseph wo[ul]d. go & take 3 Hi[gh] P[riests].
B. Y.[:] That wo[ul]d. take away his crown, put in on ano[the]r. & go to hell-
H C K[:] If you were to call the Big toe the head, it wo[ul]d. not be the head-but the toe still-[Y]ou may riggle & twist as you please-[T]he L[or]d. says I give unto you B. Y., to be Pres[iden]t-& you cant put any other in-
B. Y.[:] It is just B[righam]. that can put B[righam] out-or Heber that can put Heber out-
Phelps[:] I want it understood that bro Henry is innocent-[B]ro Henry marr[ie]d. 2 girls to me-not sealed-I dont owe any defference to the laws of N.Y.-I had no Wife in the U. S. I wo[ul]d. not bring a woman unless she was marr[ie]d. [H]e wo[ul]d. not marry her-& I wo[ul]d. take the responsibility-I never said I had the sealing power-I put my feet ag[ain]st. the Sp[irit] doctrine-I wo[ul]d. not have a woman unless she was my wife-I never said there ever was in the doct[rine].-I bel[ieve] it was lawful for me to take a Wife-
B. Y.[:] I am plaguy [plenty?] sorry it is done-but you have been living in adultery-[N]o man can have the 2nd woman unless he ha[s] the consent of the man who holds the sealing power-
[I]f you are in my Fa[the]rs palace-he says to his Chil[dren] you must not touch them-[W]hen he s faithful-the Fa[the]r. says, my Son here s a jewel-[and] he keeps it in his bosom-[T]hese girls are no more yours than mine & I ve a right to sleep with them as much as you-Joseph never allowed a man to have a girl-[W]e brought girls from England but never touched them-[T]hey married others-Joseph gave a Sister to me by rev[elatio]n. [I]f bro Phelps had told us last Spring that he was going to bring a girl-I wo[ul]d. have given her to you & [would have been] glad to do it-but now it will be blazed all over the Country & you cant prevent the El[ders] of Israel from going into whoredom-
O. P.[:] As the Twelve have not the right to enter into [a] Covenant-I dont see how any /o[the]r./ man has the right.
B. Y.[:] I just so be called-I s
ay go down into the Waters of baptism & have [hands] laids on you & dont sleep with one of those girls until they are given to you.-It makes me feel when I see men on slippery places-[N]o man is fit to hold a Licence who will do such things-[I]t is like handling hedge tools-a man is in danger of bleeding & I tremble & fear-I fear the El[ders] of Israel will cause an irruption in our midst. Oh walk humbly before the Lord & a man is on the inclined plane going up-Never let bro: Henry go a preaching again until he knows better-I am hearty glad bro Phelps is increasing-but I am sorry he is doing it unlawfully-
J. Y.[:] My Spirit feels like bro B[righam].-& I feel that I co[ul]d. not let a man go a preaching-If I had been in Niagara Co[unty]. I bel[ieve]. I sho[ul]d. have vetoed it-I wo[ul]d. not be led by a man altho[ugh] a Superior officer-so careful as I am-I never dare put my finger on the rim of a bonnet-& the Serpent is there-& I feel that no Elder ought to do it-[T]here is plenty of the Elders who will go to the devil-but when things are done lawfully the Lord recognizes it-[I]f the Elders dont know it-if you see a beautiful loving woman & her voice is music-it is an angelic spirit & it will run into a Spirit of lust-& if you consent to that Sp[irit]-that is adultery-
B. Y.[:] If a man says I would kill the Prophet if I had power-that is consenting to shedd innocent blood-The affections that a woman has for man-the Lord puts in there-& the Devil wo[ul]d. open the flood gate of hell to destroy them-[I]t is perfectly right for an man to enjoy himself with his women as much as he pleases.
J. Y.[:] No man can attain to the fulness of the P[riesthood]. who has given way to women from his youth-
B. Y.[:] If the Lord did not put the desire into both men & women, the world wo[ul]d. soon be depopulated-
O. P.[: S]uppose the Ch[urch] sho[ul]d, app[oin]t 3 first pres[iden]y.-[If] they have a ri[gh]t. to do any thing else wo[ul]d. that 1st P[resident]. have the same power over the 12 that Jos[eph]. & his 2 Co[unselors]. had[?]-[O]r sup[pose]. 3 of the 12 sho[ul]d. be ap[pointe]d. a 1st P[residen]t.-[W]o[ul]d. that decision be as valid as the Quo[rum] of the 12[?]-
J Y.[:] I say yes-or what are they ap[pointe]d. for[?]-[B]ec[ause] they have the sanction of the Ch[urch] & all the auth[oritie]s.
O. P.[:] I wont consider they co[ul]d. be add[ed]. to a greater power.
H C K[: S]upp[ose] the Quo[rum] of the 12 invest that power in 3[?]-
O. P.[:] If they have that power there is something in the dark yet-[I]f 3 men need an ord[inatio]n. to be app[oin]t[ed]. Pres[iden]ts., who will ordain them[?]
B. Y.[:] It dont convey that Idea-
O. P.[: T]he B[ook]. of Cov[enan]ts. [Commandments] say[s] that 7 is required in all things-
B. Y.[:] If men are elected by this Ch[urch]. it is by Election-Joseph was ord[aine]d. an Apostle-but the Ch[urch] elected him as a /Pres[iden]t./ Prophet-Seer & Rev[elato]r-but he never was ord[aine]d. to that office. Jos[ep]h. was ord[aine]d. an apostle by O[liver]. Cowdery-
[T]hey rec[eive]d. their ord[inatio]n. by Peter James & John bef[ore] there was a Ch[urch]. [T]hey are taken & selected & upheld by the Ch[urch] & therefore elected-
O. P. (reads page 102 par 11).
B. Y.[:] Aint I the Pres[iden]t. of the 12[?]-Yes-Aint the 12 the Pres[iden]t. of the Ch[urch?] Yes. [T]here it is-they are appointed & upheld-[I]t presupposes their ordinat[io]n. B. Y. (reads it)[: I]t explains itself. Joseph was ord[aine]d. an Apostle [and] so was O[liver]. Cowdery.
O[liver]. C[owdery]. is gone by the board-J. S. is gone to [the] grave leaving the 12-O[liver].
C[owdery]. was the Junior Apostle-[N]o man has the ri[gh]t. to regulate the Ch[urch] unless he is an apost[le]-Joseph has stept out of the way-[W]e take 1 step in advance-& I ask-if there is an Apos[tle] in the Church-all the keys are teetotally vested in him-Peter was the Pres[iden]t. & he chose James & John & they gave the power to Joseph & they were only Apostles-[I]f the Ch[urch] sh[oul]d. sa[y] take 3 men from the Quo[rum] of the 12 their dec[isio]ns. wo[ul]d. be as legal, [for] of necessity we must have 3 men to preside in the Stake-[O]f necessity we must have 9 more to preach the Gospel to the nations of the Earth & of necessity we must [have] the 70 to assist-[I]f any man thinks he has as much power as I have, [let him] wrestle with me & see where he will go-[I]f the Quo[rum]. of the 12 sa[ys] to the 3 men-decide-if the Quo[rum] decide a point-& I will stand up & contend ag[ain]st. them if I know them to be wrong, I shall throw the 11 men & the Lord will help me up-
O. P.[: S]uppose 7 men of the 12 say to a man go home-& 3 at home say come home, which shall he submit to?
B. Y.[:] If I had not confidence in the 3 I wo[ul]d. never go a preaching-
O. P.[:] I wo[ul]d. like to see the 12 hold tog[ethe]r. perfectly & unitedly-& 7 to decide in all decisions-
H C K[:] Then you tie them up-
B. Y.[:] Which is better, to untie the feet of the 12 & let them go to the nations-or always keep the 7 at home[?]-
H C K[:] By what authority are you called together-by Pres[iden]t. Young himself[?]-
B. Y.[:] And I sho[ul]d. not have one particle more power than I have now.
H C K[: I]n Joseph s day his 2 Co[unselor]s. formed a Pres[idenc]y.-& they had [the] right to call the 12 home when they pleased-
O. P.[:] It is my feelings there sho[ul]d. not be a 3 first Pres[idenc]y., but the 12 be the First Pres[idenc]y.-in the ancient order ther[e] was no 3 first pres[idenc]y-neither were there any high councils-
E T B[:] There is one thing ab[ou]t. it-if it is right-you cant make it wrong-
B. Y.[:] If the glory of God is to be carr[ie]d. over all the nations of the Earth I wo[ul]d. as soon go as stay-or stay as go, but if our hands are tied-it lies upon those who tie our hands-
O. P.[:] I certainly sho[ul]d. have more confidence in the decision of 7 men, than in the decision of 3-
H C. K.[: S]uppose all the 12 are riding in 1 Coach & bro. B[rigahm]. is sitting in the front-
[C]ant he see the Stumps & guide the team better than the one who sits behind[?]-
O. P.[:] Certainly.
H C K[:] I motion an adj[our]n[ment]. O. P.[: I] seco[n]d. Carried. " to 3 oclock.
[source: Minutes; Minutes; Minutes]
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