Mormon History, Dec 5, 1847

[Minutes, Quorum of Twelve] 5 P.M. All of the Council assembled in a small house, & opened with singing "Come all ye Sons of Zion" very delightfully & prayer by Amasa Lyman-when the Council sung "O happy are souls who pray."
B. Young[: A]s we are now as many of the Qu[orum] of the 12 as can be gathered tog[e]t[her]. I feel disposed to open my mind and feelings in regard to a question we have talked over, & I want to have a decision-1st on the death of Jos[eph]. [T]he 12 had to step forw[a]rd. to lead the Ch[urch] & I felt then as now as when duty prompts me I mean to do it, let consequences be what they ma[y]-[C]onsequently I acted as I did, & so did those of this Co[unci]l. of 12-thus far they have been conducted satisfactorily-[A]t [the] time 12 stept forw[ar]d. & follow[ed] in [the] steps of [the] prophet. [A]t that time & since Ive had but one mind to the whole affair & I thot. I knew what ought to be done, & do now, [and] we stept forw[ar]d. in [the] midst of opposit[io]n., calamity, & trial of every kind & was sure God wo[ul]d. bear us off Conqueror over all our Sp[iritual] foes-[A]t the time I had some understand[in]gs. as to organ[izatio]n. of its perfect[io].n.
I never mouthed it till lately [as] it was not time to broach the subject until I felt it duty-& I knew the Sp[irit]. wo[ul]d. not let me do it-[F]rom [that] time I have been in [the] G[rea]t. Sa[lt] Lake City till now, [and] the tap[pin]gs. of [the] Sp[irit]. to me is the Ch[urch] ou[gh]t. to be now org[anize]d.-& it proves to the Ch[urch] if there is a God in Mormonism-that is in 12 we have proven to [the] L[or]d. & Devil & men that we are just willing to do what [the] L[or]d. wants us to do-[N]ow is [the] time this quest[io]n. is to be [in] settl[men]t.-[I]f all are going into [the] Valley let it be there-[I]f that qu[estion] can be settled by 9 of 12 then it can be carr[ie]d. bef[ore] auth[or]s. of Ch[urch] & it can be settled in their own minds & then-the feeling that I have & the Sp[irit] that guides leads & protects me is-if this is not right, right it-[B]ut [the] Sp[irit] prompts me to obe[y] those Steps-If [the] Ch[urch] continues to stand as now-if 12 stand as [the]
Pres[idenc]y., the Ch[urch] may judge whe[the]r. its ri[gh]t. [is] to keep 12 at home to preside, & if I dont not if [the] L[or]d. requires & manifests that it be wisdom to have [the] 1st Pres[idenc]y. & liberate 12-& 12 to stand as now & not sep[arate]-but stay with [the] Ch[urch] & preside over [the] Ch[urch] as say I hold pre[ro]gotive-I am going to roll that responsibility of[f] my Shoulders & roll it on these my bre[thre]n-[W]e can organize [a] 1st Pres[idenc]y. its ru/le/ [is] if they are disposed to do it well & good, if not, the responsibility is on you-I feel I dont [k]no[w] much-
[T]here s a [w]rong concep[tio]n. regard[in]g. organizing [the] 1st pres[idenc]y.-as theres nobody here but 12 & our Clerk. Im going tell you-we have had talk-& bro O[rson]. P[ratt-] his arguments were singular to me talk[in]g. of divid[in]g. 12. I dont understand-if one man is taken as Pres[iden]t. & his 2 Co[unci]l[or]s.-I understand the 12 stand as now-[T]he o[the]r. of 12 can be foot loose & can carry the K[ingdom] to [the] world-[W]hen all 12 sit toge[the]r. they sit as now-
[I]f we are not 1 we cant suppose we are the L[or]ds. or his Serv[an]ts. [Othe]rs will not take our places. Jos[ep]h. always wanted 12 to transact with him. as 1 Co[unci]l[or].-[T]his wo[ul]d. not sep[arate]. us. but wo[ul]d, give us an org[anizatio]n. filling up [the] D.&C.-& [an] org[anizatio]n. of Ch[rist].-& wo[ul]d. be no more than does this Ch[urch] now.-J[oseph]. S[mith]. be 1st.
Pres[idenc]y. sec[on]d. cou[nselor]-thats [blank] thats all the ord[inatio]n.-election & [blank]-
[H]e was an Apostle, thats all we can sa[y] ab[ou]t it-Wherever his lot is cast, there act & in all faithfulness.-[T]he question ought to be decided-the future acts of the 12 will be accord[in]g to [a] decision of this Council in this respect, whet[her]. going to [the] mountains, E[ast]., or England-
[M]y conversat[io]n. has hitherto been independent to rouse his feelings-[I]f [the] 1st Pres[idenc]y. is to be it falls on me [and] it cant fall on any one else, [though] I wo[ul]d. be glad if it did-[A]s to going fow[ar]d. to be trammelled I would do it, I mean to do right-riter & rightest-[I]f we dont do it we are down-I want every man to go with [the] curr/ent/ of L[or]d. [-] just learn which wa[y] that goes & go with that-[T]hat will carry out [the] designs of [the] Al[mighty]. in giving [the]
P[riesthood]. unto us. [A]n El[der] who meets current of Sp[irit] will spit in his own face. I dont want any of you to grieve the Sp[irit]. I want it decided that we ma[y] [k]no[w] our future movements-I mean to be here & justified bef[ore the] L[or]d. in the matter-[W]hen Sidney [Rigdon] came back I walked up to the meet[in]g. alone. I asked S. White if he w[oul]d. go. [but] he said no-A man that wo[ul]d. follow S[idney] R[igdon]. I dont care a damn-I did not ask the p[eo]pl[e] if I might speak [-] I just spoke as I did-[I]n my days God knows I wo[ul]d. not consent to any such meanness, if a man does wrong we can correct him.
W. R.[:] A council was ap[pointe]d. at my Office at 9 oclock, & instead of your coming to [the] Council you went to [a] meeting-[Y]ou expected to meet us in Council.
B. Y.[:] I dont own to that & if such an item goes into the history Id tear it out if written in [a] book of Gold-
W. R.[:] It was simply this[:] we expected to meet tog[ethe]r.-[and] we tho[ugh]t. something had happened & went to stand & found you there.
B. Y.[:] Does any of you know of my making an app[oi]nt[ment]. & not being there[?]-
G. A. S.[:] You are sometimes in council to an hour or two (laf)-
B. Y.[:] Sid[ney Rigdon] & [Thomas] Marsh told us [the] meeting was not going to be-& I saw the bre[thre]n gathering & went-
W. R.[:] Theres nothing in [the] history to shew you are defective.
B. Y.[:] Now by talking ab[ou]t. it-I begin to recollect it.
H. C. K.[:] I [k]no[w] you was at stand but a very few minutes-
B. Y.[:] In some instances things are penned up in too hi[gh] colors, & some [are] very defective-
O. P.[:] I [k]no[w] Warren Parish [w]rote things, [how] that I was very rebellious-but afterwards [he] decided as I had it-[S]ome things are considered written that blacken the char[acter]s. of the 12 & o[the]rs.-I always tho[ugh]t. if I had any influence with God I sho[ul]d. petition God ag[ain]st. its being published.
H. C. K.[: B]ro O. that history is corrected by the 12.-[W]e took a great deal of pains to correct it-[and] I dont want any thing handed down of any man who holds the office o[f] 12-that future generations sho[ul]d. see.-I hate the principle-
O H.[:] There s some things in that history I wish were blotted out-
H. C. K.[:] I read in [the] old history that those, where things are said ab[ou]t. them, are tho[ugh]t. the most of them-
O. P.[: A] mans faults if they are written ought to have carried out their whole meaning-or else it is despicable in my eyes. [T]hat thing that Warren Parrish wrote "O Pratt manifested a rebellious Sp[irit]"-it was all ab[ou]t. the prounounciation of a Hebrew word. [W]hen it was decided in my favor-future generat[i]ons. wo[ul]d. think I had done some great fault-
O. H.[:] I dont think this Council wo[ul]d. let any thing go that wo[ul]d. oppress any one unjustly-
B. Y[:] You may hasten your remarks or deliberate on them. I want you to manifest your feelings in regular order-
H C K.[:] I suppose the matter bef[ore the] house is /ab[ou]t./ appoint[in]g. [a First]
Pres[iden]cy.-I am perfectly satisfied concerning such a matter. I have no hesitation nor or not had a long time-I feel its right-I am satisfied it wo[ul]d. be accord[in]g. to [the] will & mind of God & wo[ul]d. furt[he]r. [the] cause instead of checking of it., & I dont consider it wo[ul]d give any more power than they have now. I have all the power I can handle & [that] God is willing to give me-I bel[ieve] the heavens will be rent some day & will behold [the] L[or]d. I am subject & intend to be from this time forth inasmuch as I can.
O. H.[: I] feel perfectly to accord with [t
he] views of bro Y.& R. [W]e have fought the battle disorganized-& now we have wipt the enemy in a disorganized state what can we do when org[anize]d-& now go to work & org[anize]: hit[her].-[W]hat his p[eo]pl[e] do under [is that] the influence of the Sp[irit] of [the] L[or]d. is [the] voice of God-I claim from the cong[regatio]n. if theyd give me all power in heaven & earth to do good. & they gave it [to] me [that] 3 men can manage the Ch[urch] & K[ingdom] of God & the quicker it is brought to bear-I am in favor of it. I feel Bro Y. is the man [and] it is his natural ri[gh]t.-[I]t is his priv[ilege]: to nominate his Councillors-[W]e ma[y] as well commence work & do it up to night as any o[the]r. time.
H C. K.[:] There is no o[the]r. man than him with me-I want it as it is & no o[the]r.-
B. Y.[:] I urge you to go with the Sp[irit]. of the L[or]d. & w[he]n we get to that we are of one Sp[irit]. & one mind.
O. Pratt[: T]his is [the] 1st. time that the subj[ec]t. of [the] 1st. Pres[idenc]y. is bro[ugh]t. bef[ore]. [the] Co[unci]l.-[I]t has been thrown in incidentally in conversat[io]n.-both out of Co[unci]l. & in our Co[unci]l.-[T]here were some ob[ser]v[ati]ons in relation to [the] subj[ec]t.-
[I]ts a subject I have for some few weeks reflected on-I have meditated on it considerably-When I did hear of it some 2 or 3 y[ea]rs ago that there wo[ul]d. be a priv[ilege]. to have a 1st Presidency-I have thot. the time wo[ul]d. soon be, that it was necessary for me as well as the rest of this Quo[rum]. to get all the li[gh]t. upon the subject-I dont dispute the ri[gh]t. of the Ch[urch] to app[oin]t. a 1st. Pres[idenc]y.-the only question in my mind is the expediency of the thing, not whe[the]r. the Ch[urch] has power-but what is rightest, that is what we want-[U]nder the Council of this Quo[rum] the Ch[urch] has prospered-the Ch[urch] has been led & instructed right-[T]he question is, is it not more expedient to continue this Quo[rum] as it is-instead of making 2 sep[arate] Quo[rums?]-[I]t wo[ul]d. make 2 sep[arate] Quo[rum] out of this Quo[rum]. [T]he decision of 3 wo[ul]d. be equal to the decision of 9.-I question the decision of the Ch[urch]., whet[he]r. the dec[isio]n. of 3 sho[ul]d. be equal to 9-for this wo[ul]d. be the case accord[in]g. to the D&C-[I]f 6 of this Quo[rum] sho[ul]d. be abroad & decide on a subject-& the o[the]r. 3 at home, it wo[ul]d. be in their power to decide diff[eren]t[ly]. with d[ou]ble the No. if 3 are app[ointe]d. [I]t will be by election-there needs no additional ordination-& consequently our decisions are now all equal-[B]ut it is the Pres[idenc]y. right to Preside by virtue of his age & to decide any little ma[tte]r-[B]ut if the Pres[idenc]y. & 5 men decide one thing-& 7 decide the o[the]r., the 7 wo[ul]d. carry. I feel the Ch[urch] will app[oi]nt a 1st. Pres[idenc]y. but I want to express my mind-I feel following the current of the Sp[irit] is for me to decide accord[in]g. to the li[gh]t. I have upon it-that I wo[ul]d. term deciding by the Sp[irit]-[I]f I give up my judg[men]t. & views that wo[ul]d, not decide bec[ause] the Ch[urch] ma[y] have diff[eren]t views-I dont think we sho[ul]d. act right in the sight of God with[ou]t. we [having] exercised our judgment-[I]n all matters I intend to act as independently as if there was no Quo[rum]. [I]f this is not right there is no necessity for Councillors-I [k]no[w] we have often been whipt by bro Joseph, & urged by bro Young if we have any views to let them out-Ill bear the foolishness-I will not harbor the feelings in my bosom but express them freely in council-I do verily bel[ieve] from the bottom of my heart that there is no occasion for 3 first Pres[i]d[enc]y by appointt[in]g. 3 first Pres[idenc]y.-[W]e sho[ul]d. be just as disorganized as we are now unless the vacancies are filled out-[A]ccording to [the] D&C., 3 first Pres[iden]cy. are a sep[arate] Quo[rum].-[and] the 12 ano[the]r.-[I]f the 3 1st. pres[idenc]y. are a part of the Quo[rum]-its no pattern to us-[I]n ancient days Peter had Ja[me]s. & John but we have nothing to do with [the] Ancient organizat[io]n.-Ancient times they had no Hi[gh] councils & we have-[I]f we organize according to the D&C. the Quo[rum] wo[ul]d. have to be filled up or there wo[ul]d. be a lack-[C]annot we say as a Quo[rum]. to 3 men-you go over into the Valley [and] take charge of the affairs in that reg[io]n., does not that liberate 9[?]-[C]ertainly it does-[C]ant we say to 1 man go & act-but when we return we act with you[? I]f there is a 3 first Pres[idenc]y, they act whe[the]r. we are present or absent-[S]ince the days of Joseph 3 men went to England, [and] we gave them power to do it-[W]e backed them up & the L[or]d. blest them to as great an extent as if we had conferred on the the 3 first Pres[idenc]y. [T]his Quo[rum] can all decide that we stay here & delegate 1 2 3 or 4 men & set them apart to go into the valley & preside that the blessing of heaven wo[ul]d. be with them as much as if he had delegated to them the 3 first Pres[idenc]y.-[I]f we app[oin]t[e]d. a 3 first Pres[idenc]y. we dont hold an equal right with them, [and] I have an idea there will be a 3 first Pres[idenc]y. app[oin]t[e]d. I dont think the L[or]d. will bless this Ch[urch] if it is done as much as if they cont[inue]d. the 12 first Pres[idenc]y.-& in the midst of a number of Councillors there is safety-I will say if there is a decision on the subject are the Ch[urch] decides there shall be a 3 first Presty., I shall be obl[igated]. to them. I will acquiesce in the decisions-I remember that in ancient days they requested a King-& the L[or]d. gave them a King, & Samuel says in order to convince of you the wickedness of this thing the L[or]d. will send thunder & lightning in harvest time-[H]ere the whole Ch[urch] went wrong-yet Samuel was convinced it was wrong-[T]his Ch[urch] have no restraints on them, [and] there is nothing to prohibit a 3 first Pres[idenc]y. but according to my present light I sho[ul]d. say it is not expedient-
B.Y.[:] I was precise to follow the current of the Sp[irit] of the L[or]d. & not of the current of the p[eo]pl[e]-
O. P.[:] I have remarked we have hitherto acted too much as machines heretofore-instead of as councillors-[A]s to following the Sp[irit] that is what I believe in-[H]e sho[ul]d. decide upon the best wisdom & judg[men]t. he has got-I will confess to my own shame I have decided contrary to my own feelings many times-I have been too much a machine-but I mean hereafter not to bemean myself as to let my feelings run counter to my own judg[men]t. [I]f I am wrong am I not willing to be corrected by this Council[?] I wo[ul]d. be an hypocrite to say it-[I]t wo[ul]d. be so much beneath my feelings that I dont intend to do it-
O. H.[:] My feelings wo[ul]d. be to fill up the Quo[rum] of the 12.
B. Y.[:] That will be for me to speak hereafter that is my if we have not a mind to fill up the Quo[rum]-[T]hats none of their bus[iness]. if there s a 1st. Pres[idenc]y. [-] who has any bus[iness] with it[?]-[W]e have met the defect of a 1st. Pres[idenc]y. & we can meet the defect of not hav[in]g. a full Quo[rum] of 12.
H. C. K.[:] I have my doubts if we co[ul]d. get 3 or 4 more horses to draw the 12 as we have done-
W. R.[:] I dont [k]no[w] that is necessary to sa[y] much. I concur fully with the 1st 3 that have Spoken-[I]n regard to bro Pratt he thinks it best to let 7 have the power-[I]f that, princ[iple]. is good now I cant see why it did not always be so-I cant see why our Heavenly Fat[her]. saw best to have a Pres[idenc]y. of 3 instead of 7-[M]y feelings are those that have originated from a Sp[irit] to me & which are manifested to me bef[ore]. it-is mouthed to me-[T]his is manifest to me clearly & that is an end of all controversy & that is the end of the law to me-I act by that Sp[irit]-it is ri[gh]t. [that] there sho[ul]d. be a 1st. Pres[idenc]y.-[T]he individual who has the ri[gh]t. I have no doubt-the necessity of it I have no doubt-& if we dont organize this Ch[urch] from this time I feel we shall see a waning in this Ch[urch]-[I]f we go forward we shall prosper as hitherto & more abundantly-[T]here are o[the]r. things that might
be spoken of but it is not necessary now-[I]n regard to filling up the Quo[rum]. I am also prepared to act upon that subject but I do not think there is the occ[asio]n. as there is the 1st. [blank] of the subject.
W. Woodruff[:] I view it to be of great importance to us as a p[eo]pl[e]-in regard to all matters of this kind-[I]f they come without reasons are given they come in a different view to what they ar[e] after the reasons are given-[M]y feelings are now whatever the will of God is that is my will, let it come in what shape it may-[I]n the 1st. place a query came[:] will the Quo[rum] be filled up[?]-[I]f 3 are taken out to form a 1st pres[idenc]y. it seemed like severing a body in two. [T]here were no reasons given me & I desired the Quo[rum] sho[ul]d. continue as it was-I felt if the Quo[rum] of 12 were to surrender their power unto 3 I sho[ul]d. be totally opposed to it-tho there are some things are brought up ag[ain]st. it. [M]y feelings are /our/ Pres[iden]t. who stands at our head has said he was moved upon by the Sp[irit] to speak to us-[O]ur Pres[iden]t seems to be moved upon by the Sp[irit]-[H]e stands bet[wee]n. us & God & I for one dont want to tie his hands.
I dont care what the Al[mighty]. wants-his will is my will-I am perfectly willing that sh[oul]d. be the case-with reg[ar]d. to [the] Quo[rum] remaining as it is-3 men holding the keys can ordain any man in the Church-Bro Y[oung]. [may] go forw[ar]d. & anoint whom they please-[I]f the 3 first Pres[idenc]y. hold their station among the Quo[rum] of the 12 I am agreed-I dont want to stand in their way & tie up in his hands [as] he is nearer God than I am & I wo[ul]d. rat[her]. untie his hands-[I]f the 3 first Pres[idenc]y. were set from us I v[e] had some feelings, [and] p[e]r[h]aps they ma[y] be a selfish feeling-As the Pres[idenc]y. seem to be moved on by the Sp[irit] I m reconciled to it-If I had the disposit[io]n. to hedge up his wa[y] I co[ul]d. not do it-but I sa[y] God speed him.
B Y to W. W.[: T]hank you for your submissive feelings-[S]hould you feel contracted- then feel ag[ai]n. [W]e [wi]ll go thro the world & preach the gospel to every creature-[H]ow do you feel bro Am[asa?]-(right) [W]ill you tie me up[?]-I feel as If I wo[ul]d. pull up mountains-I sa[y] bro O[rson]. P[ratt]. if you tie me up you seek your own downfall-[W]eve fought the battles & you cant get awa[y] from me if you [wil]l only keep the Sp[irit]-you cant get rid of me-I
[k]no[w] what God wants with this p[eo]pl[e]-[I]f you dont sa[y] Go ahead & preach the Gospel I ll thro[w] the Load on you & it will sink you to hell-thats the wa[y] I feel-(full of Spirit & Shout) I feel right all the time[!]-[S]et O Pratt at the head of this Ch[urch] & he [will] lead them to hell-[Y]ou cant give me any power [because] Ive got it myself-[Y]ou cant get rid of me Orson (P[ratt]).
O. P.[:] I dont intend to-
B. Y.[:] I see some things run to a point & ag[ai]n. I see Glory Hallelujah (Shout) I foresee things-Ive stood up & say Death is no difference to me-[B]ro Orson I dont attach any blame to you, but I know where Spirits lead to-
O P.[:] If I had the priv[ilege] of roaring I co[ul]d. roar too-I feel every man who stands as a Councillor sho[ul]d. not express one thing out of doors & ano[the]r. in-I dont consider it a narrow contracted Sp[irit]-I want the Quo[rum] to know it-
G. A. Smith-I ve chatted with O[rson]. P[ratt]. on this subject-[I]n a matter of importance that comes bef[ore]. me-I go to pray upon it until I see it-but blast the thing, I feel too tormented [and] bad about it to talk. I dont want to be pulled apart-& pulled locomotive fashion-I dreamed some dreams ab[ou]t. it & understood it all-I want to do the thing that wo[ul]d. build up the K[ingdom] of God the most-[I]f there was 3 of the Quo[rum], good heavens theres an end of the matter-I want to stick together as we have done-I have felt as tho[ugh] I co[ul]d. fly-& if I wo[ul]d. blow I wo[ul]d. let off the Steam with a good grace-I calculate to keep at it-I dont want to see this Quo[rum]: divided-[W]e are good fellows & better [?] [and] if 3 are picked out there might be jealousies-[W]e have acted under the 1st Pres[idenc]y. [and] I dont want the opp[ositio]n. on my necks-[M]y head aches most blastardly & I wo[ul]d. like to sleep on it-I am such an intolerant gabbler I wont make any pledges-[T]his K[ingdom] will roll ahead, just take what course you please-if its the will of the L[or]d. that this course sho[ul]d. be taken. Ill twist myself to it but its not my will tonight. Im not prepared ab[ou]t. it, on acc[oun]t. of my health-
B. Y.[: M]y feelings are precisely like yours-I wo[ul]d. not be div[ide]d. in our feelings or sep[arate]d. no more than you wo[ul]d. [I]t is in me like 7 thunders rolling-I wo[ul]d. not have [h]ollord tonight but its in me-I love this Quo[rum] as I love my eyes-but if you contract this K[ingdom] you will throw us out-but the K[ingdom] will roll on-I [k]no[w] what it is to have a 1st. Pres[idenc]y.-God has brought us where we are & we have got to do it & if the Devil can get us to decide that we will not have a 1st. Pres[idenc]y.-if you throw the K[ingdom] into the Quo[rum] of 50 they cant manage it & the 70 cant do it.
O. H.[:] If there ever was a propriety in hav[in]g. a 1st Pres[idenc]y. that time is now-
B. Y.[:] If we fill up the organ[izatio]n.-in reg[ar]d. to filling up the 12 it dont matter now-
G. A. S.[:] Im perfectly satisfied with Pres[iden]t. Young s course. I have no objections, only my private feelings-[T]his K[ingdom] will roll-even if it rolls us out. I cant find I am perfectly ready to act in any place as one of the 12 or any thing that ma[y] be necessary-
O H[:] When Jos[ep]h. was alive our feelings were not divided from his nor his from ours-
A. L.[:] I will state my present feelings & views in relation to the Apostleship-[I]f my notions are incorrect I want the Pres[iden]t. to put light on me. I expect some time or other to exercise the duties of an Apostle a great wa[y] from here or the Council-I am not going to say what ma[y] be the feelings if & if & if 3 were a first Pres[idenc]y. I am satisfied what they will be if they are as they have been-[W]e will be glad to get together again (B[righam] Y[oung].[:] & fall on each o[the]rs. necks) [T]he door for the wider spread of the word upon a larger scale is opening in the E[ast], W[est], N[orth], & S[outh]. The time for a man to go on an 18 mo[nth]s. mission is about to be toed off-[T]he int[erests] of Zion are to be watched over in the Valley, States, Europe, & all or parts of the world-& now it is nec[essar]y. to see what has to be done, [whether] the Quo[rum] has to be spread abroad [as] the Pres[idenc]y. has not fully id[ea]. what is the nature in reg[ar]d. to a sep[aratio]n. by 3 of the Quo[rum] being taken to preside & whose residence is to be at Head Quarters-[I]f they [blank] me into any shape or form to hinder Pres[iden]t. Young bearing the same relation to us-here s a business to be done here. [T]his is to carry out a work that has already been begun by ano[the]r. [I]f one man is not to stand in any mans place he wo[ul]d. stand as Pres[ident] of [the] Quo[rum] of 12-[H]ow much Fa[r]t[her]. will they be sep[a]r[ate]d. from [the] Quo[rum] of 12 than I sh[oul]d be if I was sent as an Apostle to England. Scotland &c. I am the rep[resentative] of the Quo[rum] of 12 & in doing my duty as an Apostle my work is as good & as strong as if all the 12 were there-[I]f I am wrong I am where I can be corrected-I go if with the faith of the Quo[rum] & the Ch[urch] & Im an almighty great man-[B]ut here the work is not here for us to do-[S]upp[ose] here are 3 of the 12-they have already got all the Power that God ever gave & that man is the head of the body-[W]hen the Pres[iden]t. gets up to hew he can hew off the Church according to the order of the P[riesthood]. [E]very quo[rum] of the Ch[urch] is a body-& to every body there is a head-& the head is the biggest member bec[ause] it knows the most & has the most responsibility-[I]f you see my arm it is as perfect a member of my body as my head-[A]int the head accountable where my arm is not accountable[?]-[T]ha
t is true-/even/ when you carry it down to any individual member-[T]hen my view in relation to the responsibility of the head is the power & right to dictate that the head has over the member & the power & admonition is in the head & not the body-the head who made it-[D]id the body? [T]hen I say the body has no right to dictate the head-[A] bigger body made the head & was placed above the body & is accountable for all-then who can reproach me[?] I dont feel that I am dishonored in my Station-[I]f I was the head I co[ul]d. see as far as him-[W]hen the head sees a thing & tells me to do it, I go & do it-[I]f I am wrong I can be corrected that I may tell somebody what is right & the truth-[T]here are my reasons that the head of this Ch[urch], is, has more responsibility than any member of the Quo[rum]. [I]f not I wo[ul]d. like to have one that did-(Brig[:] Amen (Hyde Amen) If I not [blank] the hand or the foot they are all pretty much intelligent & I want my head /Pres[iden]t./ to know as much more as my head does know than my toe & try to prevent it being mashed up-[W]hen the head says to the arm go & do so & so, go & exercise yonder in the power of Apostleship in disseminating truth or bringing Saints-then I m a big man, as big as the 12. I am plenty big enough & as big as any o[the]r Apostle-(B[righam] Y[oung:] I wish you had " day to preach). I let you know what my feelings are-if my head says I am wrong tell me-[I]ts enough to know what my feelings are in regard to what member bears to the head-& the prin[ciple]: that the int[eres]ts. of the p[eo]pl[e] wo[ul]d. be safer in the hands of 7 men than 3-[I]t does not appear so to me in a [illegible] rel[atio]n. [as] it takes 7 men to comprehend as much as 3 in ano[the]r. relation-[I]t appears to me in the nature of circumstances that [the] Quo[rum] of 12 cant reasonably entertain the exp[ectatio]n of being together as they have been since the death of Jos[ep]h.-[S]omebody has to preside-I presume I will go to valley there they [blank] & watch over the int[erests]: of Zion & they may send me to preside over Gentiles & S[ain]ts. I sho[ul]d. preside over Gentiles whe[the]r. they acknowledge me or not-[T]he 3 apostles co[ul]d. not get any bigger power. I suppose God ord[aine]d. that Pres[iden]t. Young sho[ul]d. be born so many years bef[ore] me-at any rate I dont remember it-I have got to act in my place & I dont bel[ieve] as to the matter of what will happen to the Quo[rum] of 12-[T]hats not a matter of business for to night-[W]hen I think of our 12 & 2 being taken out-my mind is what bearing will that be to the Quo[rum] of 12-I ve supposed a sep[aratio]n. of 3 or they co[ul]d not belong to the Quo[rum] of 12. they [wil]l either belong to it-or not-
B. Y.[: T]hey [wil]l either belong to [the] Quo[rum] of 12-or 12 [will] belong to them-
If we get all our pay here I consider it the poorest kind of pay, by & by I expect a rew[ar]d. for our past labors & endure the changes that may be made here will not have a bearing to sep[arate] us any more than if the subject had not been agitated. [I]t wont make a bit of difference-[S]up[pose]
[from the] Quo[rum] bro Amasa go[es] to England-Ezra to ano[the]r., Hyde to ano[the]r., [and] all are sent, all are 12 s in relation to the bus[iness]: sent to do-& they are just the men to do it-
[T]here is no load as big but they can grapple it-[S]uppose the Ch[urch] say[s] bro B[righam] shall preside over the affairs of the Ch[urch]-[I]f we stay 15 y[ea]rs-we ll have an Almighty big [?]-& they ma[y] be an enormous big drove or army-[A]s to the Presidency I feel ab[ou]t. it as when the 12 assumed the responsibility of the Ch[urch]-I felt then & now-that when the circumstances of the p[eo]pl[e] require it-then is the time to be concerned ab[ou]t. it-whenever it come to the time for me to know when I sho[ul]d. feel I have always been perfectly satisfied-I expect the Pres[iden]t. will tell all ab[ou]t. the particulars. [T]he end of the law was with me when he said the whisperings of the Sp[irit] told him to do this-[W]hen the Sp[irit] taps him it is right-if I was awa[y] the Sp[irit] wo[ul]d. tap me (25 min[utes] past 8).
E. T. Benson[:] I can offer my feelings whe[the]r right or wrong [that] thats a course I have always taken-I only know how to dispose of matters then as [the] Sp[irit] guides me from da[y] to da[y]-I have not exchanged a word with bro Brigham on the matter-I feel now as the o[the]r. day when some things were talked over that every thing is right & its hard to get it [w]rong, & if any help is wanted I wo[ul]d. help to pull down a mountain [if] I am not tramelled & I am satisfied our Pres[iden]t. can tell us what is wanted-I have an testimony that he is called of God-[M]y conscience is perfectly clear & my feelings are the same as they ever have been & am willing to lift him up a peg-[T]hats my private & public feelings. [T]he arguments that have been used are gone-[T]he time is come that it may as well be done now as any o[the]r. time. I can act as well tonight as any o[the]r. time, as the rev[elatio]n. says "it is of necessity"-I have thought more about it-[T]o understand the order of God, it is as plain to me as the nose on my face-I have as much power as I can feel wish-I will not carry any burden that grinds in here (bosom) [-] the K[ingdom] of God is a K[ingdom] of light & power & we have enough-[T]heres crowns & kingdoms & people enough in the world, I want to act as I wish to-[T]he L[or]d. says it is of necessity-[W]ill that take away my power[?]-[N]o, it will give me Almighty power-[W]herever the head is, let the power be-[I]f my head tells my hand to murder a man-my head suffers for it-[I]f my head is cut off, theres a possibility of some of the members sprouting-I want a chance to spread myself & I want to be about it-[B]ro Orson, the Valley is not big enough for us 12-I wanted to [k]no[w] of the L[or]d. concerning the autho[rit]y. of the Holy P[riesthood].-I came in not from the testimony of man-I came in like Abram going from his home not knowing what I came-I was tapped on the head like a shock of electricity-[I]f I did not keep watch ahead as J[ohn]. E. Page said, its hell & damnation all round-I am in torment all the while if I do not do right-I am not concerned but that the L[or]d. will carry on the work & that all will be right-I co[ul]d. not get it into my mind that God wo[ul]d. send an angel [and] call on his servants & then suffer an ignoramus to lead awa[y] the p[eo]pl[e] to the devil. I wo[ul]d. not worship such a God & I bel[ieve] God wo[ul]d. remove our head out of his place-I am here & am willing to act-I am a machine in the mill-& if the L[or]d. throws a belt over me I will be a drum-I will be propelled-and am like powdr /clay/ in the hands of the Potter. I want to keep with the Quo[rum] of the 12 & I mean to stick to bro B[righam]. I love him as well as I do any o[the]r. man-I am perfectly willing you sho[ul]d. take 3 & they govern & control me as the L[or]d. wo[ul]d. have it, for I consider they have some burdens & have feelings for us & may God call out the honest of the heart & gather his elect from the four corners of the Earth- (Several Amen)-
Orson Pratt rose to correct some ideas & to state wherein he differs from them-wherein the Ch[urch] of God has a head for its Gov[ernmen]t.-[N]o one of this Quo[rum] wo[ul]d. sa[y] that the Ch[urch] needed no head-I have too much confidence in the good sense of this Quo[rum] to maintain any such thing-[A]ltho[ugh] the head is governed as well as the arm & I intend to expose my follies before this Quo[rum] in all subjects-I cannot with my present light view all things in the same light with Bro Amasa & bro Benson-[I]f we were to act as machines there is no need of this Council-We acknowledge that bro Young has more in & superior wisdom to any one single individual of this Quo[rum]-[N]ow to say tha /go/ when he says that the Sp[irit] of the Lord says thus & so-I dont consider we sho[ul]d. act as machines-[A]ll we sho[ul]d. have to do is to say let it be so-[I]f we are to be governed in all cases in that way-we have no room in the least degree to look at a thing in this light. I do co
nsider the head of this Ch[urch] lays in the Apostleship united together-Paul says Apostles are set in the Church-not one individual of the Apostles, without councilling on the subject, [for] if all acquiesced where wo[ul]d. be the use of Councilling[?]-[I]f a man suppposes he has the Sp[irit] of God-& the o[the]rs. unitedly think he is mistaken I bel[ieve] they overrule the first-I do not acquiesce with the sentiments of bro Amasa-[I]n another thing-I misunderstand, [for] the D&C points out that the 1st. Pres[idenc]y. with the 12 shall do so & so & there is where I consider the highest power lies in the bosoms of the apostles-[Y]et if the Pres[iden]t. told me to do thousands of things I wo[ul]d. go & do it but I do not consider it in the light of the Quo[rum] doing it-[T]he necessity of having a Pres[iden]t. is seen in thousands of instances where it is not expedient that all should have to decide-[E]ven the Gentiles do not act as a body-the majority of the House of representatives decide[s] & not the Speaker who sits as a Pres[iden]t.-& I consider that our Pres[iden]t. does not control the Quorum.
B. Y.[: I] say again Orson, start a point & see where it carries you too-Shit on Congress I wont pattern after such a thing-
O. P.[:] I brought that up to shew what the D&C says that it requires 7 to control.
B. Y. O. H. & H C K[: Y]ou do not touch the premises.
B. Y.[:] Orson you have feet, arms, legs, eyes-[W]hat puts them in motion[?]-
O. P.[:] The Spirit that is in that part-
B. Y.[:] Every particle of the body is moved by the principle of Will-[Y]ou admit all the time that Joseph is still the 1st. Pres[idenc]y. of the Ch[urch?]-Who stands next to (Benson & K[imball] you)
[F]or any man to teach me is an imposition on me-[W]hen you undertake to dictate & council me it insults me. [W]hen I want a man to go to nauvoo-or send 40 Elders to preach-then is the time for you to assist me & you wont do it. [B]ut you want to get between me & Joseph-
[Y]ou cant get there-[H]ere is business going nearer to the Celestial K[ingdom-[I]ts of importance now to organize the Ch[urch]-that this Quo[rum] may do as bro Amasa says-[T]here ought to be 1 in England, ano[the]r. in Germany-ano[the]r. in France-2 in Canada-&c. [E]very man ought to be distributed all over the world-but your Sp[irit] now wants to say you are Apostles & you can never be any bigger-[W]e are to grow-[W]hy, because it is of necessity-I must either stop following my file leader or I must follow him-[T]he premises you would give me is no more than you give any one-[Y]ou cant make me Pres[iden]t. bec[ause] I am Pres[iden]t. [Y]ou cant give me power because I have it-[Y]ou wont even give us the power that you have got yourself-I want to advance-[Y]ou want your mind to expand [as] wide as Eternity-[W]e must either ascend or descend-[N]ow is the time to take another stride-[H]ere s the nations of the earth to be gathered-
[C]ut your heart strings and let them expand-let a man put his hand on the history. [W]here I have snubbed a man I have scolded a man but no more-[H]ave I ever manifested any thing that wo[ul]d. cause the bre[thre]n to lose confidence in me[?]-[I]f I dont grow you cant-[J]ust let human nature rule & what does it lead to[?]-I see where one thing leads to & where the o[the]r thing leads to-
We are now commencing a bigger thing than ever you did before. What we have done is a mere patching to what we have to do-[I]f you tie us up we cant do any thing-but only go out with the word of life & be gathered up a Th[ing]. bigger than we have now.
H C K made a simile of a currant bush being planted in a cluster-& spread out-[I]f we are hampered up to gather, the less chance there is to spread.
O. H.[: S]uppose we decide a thing-Bro B[righam]. puts his vote upon it-& we carry it bef[ore] the p[eo]pl[e] with the veto bef[ore] our face-[W]e sho[ul]d. be thrown-[H]e has the power now & why not concede to it[?]-
H C K.-The rev[elatio]n. says I give unto you Brigham Young-
B. Y.[:] I dreamed the o[the]r. night a personage came to me & told me I had contemplated the planets == [T]his char[acter]. said he co[ul]d. shew me in 2 min[utes]: that the system is correct & if they knew what we knew they wo[ul]d. do in 2 min[utes]: what now takes days & weeks-[H]e showed me the rule & shewed me how simple it is-I bel[ieve] the L[or]d. God will give me revelations as plain as he ever told Joseph, & when it comes to you, you will see just as plain.
O H "I move that bro /Brigham/ Young be acknowledged by us as Pres[iden]t. not only of the Quo[rum] /of the 12/ but of the whole Ch[urch] & that he have the privilege of selecting /nominating/ his two councillors /to form/ as the First Presidency of the Church"-W. Woodruff sec[onde]d.
O Hyde[:] I move that bro Brigham Young be the President of the Church of J[esus]. C[hrist]. of L[atter] D[ay] S[aints]. & that he nominate his /two/ Councillors who will constitute a First Presidency.
W. Woodruff seconded-all hands up-B. Young-H. C. Kimball-O Hyde-O Pratt, W
Richards-G. A. Smith-A. Lyman, W. Woodruff, & E T Benson-& T Bullock-(20 min[utes] to 10)
O. Pratt[:] I suggest that bro Young appoint his two Councillors to night.
B. Y.[:] I should nominate bro. Heber /C. Kimball/ as my first councillor. O. Pratt[:] I second it. All hands up again.
B. Y.[:] I nominate brother Willard Richards as my other councillor. O. Hyde[:] I second it-
All hands up again-(5 min[utes] to 10)
[T]hen adjourned to bro Hydes [and] partook of Supper & followed by rich Wines-[We] sat up till " past 11 &c then retired to bed [and] sang the Pioneer song &c drank of Jerusalem Wine & delightful Strawberry Wine, our souls all rejoicing in the Lord for his mercy [he] endures towards his Saints continually.

[source: Minutes, Quorum of Twelve]

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